P3 refers to the tertiary problem -- the problem(3) of the problem(2) of the problem(1) -- where problem 1 is the primary problem of Islam; problem 2 is the problem of the mainstream West inadequately dealing with the primary problem; and problem 3 is the problem of the Counter-Jihad inadequately dealing with the aforementioned two problems.
Each of these three problems has many facets and levels. One facet of P3 is the feature of my posting today: namely, the low expectations of "the People" of the West all being on the side of the Counter-Jihad (as opposed to those dastardly "leftist Elites") -- and more broadly, the low expectations of anyone who sorta kinda says things that sound vaguely anti-Islamic.
So recently on Jihad Watch, there was this headline that gushed:
Poll finds overwhelmingly that Islam is unwelcome in Germany
-- and immediately went on to note that the poll had found 95% felt this way.
Wouldn't you know it, but our old friend "the Big W" was on hand to pop their overly optimistic balloon:
thebigW says
May 19, 2019 at 3:21 pm
I bet the callers are only against “Islam” in Germany, but are okay with millions of *Muslims* in Germany. Same damn DISCONNECT I see here on these pages of Jihad Watch all the damn time, like you can have one and not the other.
After this bracing salvo, of course one of the "Rabbit Pack", one "Wellington", had to chime in with his demurrer:
Wellington says
May 19, 2019 at 3:52 pm
thebigW: What the hell are you talking about? Who here at JW is fine with Muslims in a Western nation but not OK with Islam in a Western nation? The burden of proof is now on you. Please explain yourself.
Then that other member of the "Rabbit Pack", one "gravenimage" chimed in to help explain:
gravenimage says
May 19, 2019 at 5:20 pm
I cannot, of course, speak for thebigW, but I think what he means is that while Germans rationally understand that Islam is a threat, that many of them don’t think that most Muslims want to impose Islam on them, and so are fine with continued Muslim immigration.
Big W then responded, more in-depth than I've ever seen:
thebigW says
May 20, 2019 at 3:12 pm
yeah, what gravenimage said “Perhaps he is angry about some saying they hate Islam but not Muslims–but I will not speculate any further here.” –not just put that way but in a lotta other ways, the same damn idea. and one way I can think of is to show that you ain’t against ALL Muslims being here. Once ya start makin’ exceptions, you got no good reason to be any more special than a typical bozo outside Jihad Watch who only thinks the “extremists” are the problem.
I can’t get the evidence for this now, it’d take me like hours, but I know I’ve seen it, and I ain’t imagin’ it, and it’s insulting to tell me most of y’all ain’t doin’ it all the damn time. (well “all the damn time” is an exaggeration, but even just “a lot” would be way too much)
Wellington of course barrels forward, not really getting Big W's point:
Wellington says
May 20, 2019 at 3:38 pm
thebigW: Here’s my take: I hate the KKK but it does not mean I hate every ignorant KKK member. I hate anarchism but it does not mean I hate every anarchist. I hate Islam but it does not mean I hate every Muslim. I detest socialism but it does not mean I hate every socialist. Do I think all such people are confused human beings? You betcha’. But one can sometimes hate the sin without necessarily hating the sinner. Or is it you position that hating Islam (or anarchism or Neo-Nazism or Marxism or the Ku Klux Klan or socialism et al. REQUIRES one to also to hate all adherents of a malevolent or stupid ideology? I trust you see my point and I trust you see why I objected to yours.
Big W then wisely zeroed in on Wellington's use of the Leftist term "hate":
thebigW says
May 20, 2019 at 7:34 pm
Wellington, who said anything about “hate”? Not me.
Wellington, stubbornly obtuse, stomps ahead:
Wellington says
May 20, 2019 at 8:43 pm
thebigW: Whether “against” Islam or “hating” Islam, what is the difference? You used the word “against” and then asserted that people in Germany are “against” Islam but OK with Muslims, ditto for JW commenters. You went on to use the word “disconnect” to describe this alleged discrepancy.
I challenged you to prove that people in Germany and more especially here at JW are OK with Muslims but not with Islam. You have not done this.
Let me be clearer. I despise Islam but this DOES NOT MEAN I am OK with Muslims being here in America (or any Western nation). Yes, I do not despise all Muslims, though I do some, but I do think that ALL Muslims are confused human beings.
In the final analysis, an ideology must be judged on what it says and NEVER on the basis that some adherents of the ideology in question do not fully implement its tenets. If it is a putrid ideology, as Islam surely is, then those who adhere to Islam completely are themselves also putrid. But those who are Muslims but don’t fully adhere to the Islamic theological blueprint, a blueprint inimical to liberty, for whatever reason—cultural Muslims, lazy Muslims, ignorant-of-their-own faith Muslims, etc.—are not putrid, only pathetic, a nuisance, confused, etc. But this DOES NOT TRANSLATE into being OK with such Muslims?
Are you getting any of this?
Big W's response was a fine example of focusing in on the crux -- which, even if he had not clarified it from the beginning, he was now, and so Wellington would have no good excuse for ignoring the clarification:
thebigW says
May 21, 2019 at 4:38 pm
“Whether “against” Islam or “hating” Islam, what is the difference? You used the word “against” and then asserted that people in Germany are “against” Islam but OK with Muslims, ditto for JW commenters.”
Well ya left out two words I said –
“I bet the callers are only against “Islam” in Germany, but are okay with millions of *Muslims* in Germany”
the two words “in Germany” and by extension “in the West”. To “be ok” with that means the opposite of mustering all your words, thoughts and energy into the message that they (ALL Muslims) should NOT be “in” our lands. That’s what I see in a lotta different ways some clear some between the lines that ain’t “in” the West —or in Jihad Watch (enough). ALL damn Muslims, including the “beer drinking” “dog loving” ones marc’s granpa says are A-OK–
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/05/mohammad-tawhidi-the-imam-for-peace#comment-2099759
(and see my comment below his)
And what Big W links to is the comment by "marc" (whom we mentioned in a recent posting here) talking about Muslims we apparently don't have to worry about, who drink beer and like dogs. And as Big W scathingly points out, that measure of a good Muslim would have let the Muslim terrorist of the Nice, France attack sail right on through -- which of course speaks to Wellington's initial challenge to prove this kind of softness is on Jihad Watch. Well, Big W showed it was, in the mouth of a vaunted Jihad Watch member, marc, who is not just some vagrant commenter, but has been for years Robert Spencer's main tech person and contributor of articles on Jihad Watch.
And guess, what, over 48 hours later, and no response from Wellington. [UPDATE: Now it's over 72 hours, and still no response from Wellington. We can reasonably assume he won't ever respond, but in the unlikely event he does, I will report it on this blog.]
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